It has been awhile since I have been to many group rides so I will make a few comments as an outsider and an “industry” person.
How many people does this really effect? Off the top of my head I can’t think of that many people that are going to be going to have to decide between the two rides. With the price of bikes these days a lot of the newer riders don’t have multiple bikes.
More rides are a good thing as it means the demand is there. I know this puts a bit more load on ride leaders, but more rides means more people riding even if there are only 10 who show up. See point 1 about how many riders are really having to decide between the two rides vs the number of riders that only do gravel.
Road riding and especially racing is declining. Rob already pointed out that Scrappy Badger had more participants than the o-cup. I said participant because I think this is what is being missed. Road races are not fun for the average person because the barrier to entry is high and people don’t like getting dropped. We can start a different thread bashing the OCA about this one. Numerous times in this thread people have mentioned “competitive” and “racing” I agree this is really important and these are the rides that I like, but I know I am also in the minority out of the cyclists I talk to EVERY DAY! I think sometimes our bias clouds are judgement because we hang around with like minded people and follow like minded people on strava, etc.
Want to know what bike sits the longest at the bike shop - road bikes! Especially ones that are geared towards racers. Very few people are coming in looking for Emondas or Madones they want Checkpoints and Domans.
Now a couple of solutions I have because there is no point in just complaining . . .
Could we start a gravel ride out of the same parking lot as bamberg Tuesday nights, and while we are at can we add a rec ride? This would give an opportunity for all the riders to experience the excitement before a bamberg ride starts and we can bask in the glory of achievements from weekend races (both road and gravel) to try and build on the excitement of racing. I think this would be a good way to show newer riders that the Bamberg loop doesn’t have to be intimidating, and while making things sound hard is glorious is does scare riders away. I would also mention on this note when I used to do the Bamberg rides a few years ago all the groups ones would stand in one corner, the twos in another, so it makes people comfortable staying within their group instead of riding up or down based on who shows up and how their legs are feeling.
As a newer member this thread has been very interesting to follow. I have learned a great deal about the club. My impression is this issue essentially boils down to a group of riders trying to fit in another hard ride within a busy week while other members are concerned about this contributing to a decline of a longstanding “legacy” ride.
When I joined club 2 years ago I signed up and paid my dues but really didn’t know anything about the club. I was interested in MTB skills so I went to a few of @AnaMariaBogatan Thursday skills sessions. The following year I bought a gravel bike and signed up for the P2A. I thought I should learn to ride in a group so I did the LTGR sessions and joined some Saturday gravel rides. I just haphazardly followed my interests.
I really didn’t know anything about any other rides–time trials, Tuesday HITT, Thursday threshold, Track, Cyclocross, etc. I still don’t really know anything about the racing portion of the club. I have only learned about these rides through talking to @Francqlife and others on gravel rides and through this forum.
I wonder if my experience is unique or reflects an education problem for newer members in the club and they simply don’t know about these rides. I may have missed it but there doesn’t seem single easy way to learn about the club, the rides, important races and the historical significance of them (as have come up on this thread and the recent thread on this year’s P2A race).
This thread started with a survey from @JimDaley. Maybe this has been done before but I wonder if another broader survey could provide more information and help address the concerns raised in this thread. It could ask questions like:
What is your primary cycling discipline? If you ride more than one discipline what is your second and third favorite? How many total times do you ride a week? How many times do you ride with the club per week?
Do you regularly attend the Tuesday Bamberg HIIT ride?
If no why?
–don’t ride road
–don’t know anything about the ride
–don’t want to race
–intimidated by the ride
–don’t want to get dropped
–don’t feel safe riding fast in large groups
–don’t like riding in traffic
–no interest in that type of ride
I am sure there are a number of other useful questions that could be asked that might give a picture of the current state of the club including numbers of people riding predominantly road or gravel. It might shed light on why some of these rides have declined and possibly identify areas of opportunity for improvement.
Anyway some thoughts… I apologize for the length of this post! And I hope this doesn’t come across as critical of the club or its leadership. Really just some brainstorming of ideas on my part. Thanks!
Just to add my feedback. I love the fact that the WCC culture includes open discussion and debate!
I joined WCC this year after a ~20 year hiatus since my boys have now graduated from KWCA. I rode the Bamberg loop with WCC for a few years; long before I even knew what a gravel bike was. From there I got into MTB but paused when I had kids. Ironically it was my boys that brought be back into cycling and eventually racing MTB, CX, and gravel.
I’ve really enjoyed the gravel rides this year and prefer them over road even for training. The biggest reason for that is safety. I feel much safer on gravel roads since on gravel it is much less likely to have ignorant drivers passing too closely, at too high of a speed, and/or even laying on the horn as they drive by. I have pushed my sons to train on their gravel bikes instead of road as much as possible for exactly that reason.
I don’t know if it was as bad in the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s and 2000’s however there are enough evil drivers on the road today to push me away from asphalt.
I also enjoy the Tuesday Bamberg ride and really appreciate having it as an option. Unfortunately it conflicts with the Keslo MTB race series so I rarely make it out. I would love to see it continue and thrive, but I am not surprised that interest has shifted more towards gravel. In my case, given the option I would prefer more gravel options then road. In addition to the (perceived ?) safety aspect I find the gravel rides a little more social and inclusive.
A fastermediate gravel ride on Wednesday (or maybe Thursday) is pretty ideal for me. Monday recovery from a weekend MTB race. Tuesday Kelso MTB. Wednesday hard gravel.
Re bikes I think people are realizing that unless you race at a super high level (and even if you do honestly), a (properly set up) gravel bike is basically just as fast as a road bike but with infinitely more versatility. And when higher end bikes are as expensive as they are now, it makes sense to go with versatility. This was my logic at least with my new aspero, and it makes it up greenwood hill just fine.
For the record, I absolutely hate the perceived exclusivity of group 1 (and even 2), but I’d argue it’s not group 1 perpetuating it. Hell, you’ve got like 5 group one riders ITT saying they want MORE participation across all levels on Tuesdays, because it’s a unique skill/fitness-building ride, and we want to maximize the opportunity improve together, regardless of level and even primary discipline.
I will also add that the winter zwifting/discording/meme-sharing has been really good at dissolving barriers between levels and it’s carried over into the IRL rides to start this year and it’s a really good thing.
